USRA B Mod Rules

Discussion in 'The Skybox' started by Toywagon, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Toywagon

    Toywagon Member

    I have a general type question that has me kinda puzzled.

    If I have a USRA B mod Licence, and show up at a USRA B Modified Sanctioned track to race, can a tracks rules that deviate from USRA rules qualify me as illegal if I am legal by USRA rules?

    I have been all over USRA Web site looking for an answer to this, but have been unable to get an answer.

    Jim
  2. nathan40c

    nathan40c Member

    There probably just sanctioned through USRA, but have their own rules package. So having said that I think they can DQ you.
  3. WPMS

    WPMS Member

    WPMS is USRA sanctioned but they allow us to use our own rule package. Knowing now what we did not know 2 years ago when we started this class we should have followed IMCA or USRA's rule package. Now we are outside of those rule packages and it makes it difficult for those cars to race with us or our cars to go race with them. The simple solution is to just sanction with one of them but the cost to the racer could be very expensive. Some changes that racers would have to make would depend on which one you went with but they are similar: Spec engines, ours are 10.5 to 1 theirs is 9.5 to 1 their heads are very limited to which castings you can use. Their lower ends require stock components ours do not as long as they are not scalloped or drilled or lightened and not h beam rods they are ok. They require a weind intake where we require an edelbrock. They cant run roller rockers we can, thats just a few things on the engines off the top of my head. Transmissions: We allow Bert, Brinn or Falcon type trannys, IMCA doesn't, USRA allows them but with such a penalty its not really reasonable IMO. Neither of them allow a 5.5 inch mini clutch but we do. IMCA and USRA allow a spoiler we dont. USRA allows a springbar we dont. We allow J-bars IMCA must have a Panhard bar. We allow spring sliders IMCA doesnt. Now after all that it is still very close racing between any of these rules packages and in April we are going to see how well they compete head to head. Toywagon if you show up at a weekly show at WPMS with a springbar and a spoiler you wont be allowed to race, USRA allows us to have our own rule package, do we like doing that No but we cant at this point subject the racers that have just built cars for our class to make these changes some of which are very expensive. As long as WPMS, Springfield, Monett, Lucas, and Flippin stay on the same rule package there is plenty of places to race, but as was said in another thread we know where we should be but can the racers afford the change, that is the true question here.
  4. Toywagon

    Toywagon Member

    Thank you for the reply WPMS.

    Back when I ran mini-stocks, this was a huge problem. You would have a toyota celica, a toyota corolla, a ford mustang, a ford pinto, and then throw in more imports and front wheel drive, and then all these rules trying to IROC these cars into some how being equal.( Some of these younger guys may not know what IROC is LOL )

    Even tho the A mods cost is out of hand, you can pretty much load it up and go about anywhere in the country and unload and run it. If you show up at an IMCA track, you know what to expect. If you show up at a USMTS style track, again, you know what your in for. You can't do that with these B mods. Not that any particular track can't have its own rules, and enforce them as they see it. But to have a national sanctioning such as USRA, and have so many tracks that vary significantly in what the rules state, just doesn't make since.

    If I didn't have to either buy the USRA License, or take a hit at the pay window for not having it, it wouldn't be too big of a deal I guess, or just pick one track and stay put at it. Maybe im over-thinking it? We race mostly in SE Kansas during the point's season, but I do like to run over in SW Mo early spring, and late fall.

    I wasn't aware that USRA had allowed a spring pull bar for the B mods. I hate to see that. I just re-read their rules and still don't see it in there. Going to have to read them again.

    USRA also tagged the crate engines with a weight increase for next season. Im wondering if that is due to backing down the heads the spec engines can run to try to equal that back out somehow? A crate with an aftermarket tranny is 2600 lbs now.

    I would hate to have to make the decisions that you track owners/promoters have to make as these big rule changes come from USRA etc. Please also don't take my posts/comments as stirring the pot as well. I just dont get why being USRA sanctioned is such a necessity if you don't run their rules package as it comes from USRA.

    Jim
  5. WPMS

    WPMS Member

    Jim, its not clear on the spring bar but they most definately allow one because we talked extensively to them about changing to a solid one like our rules. I dont think they changed any of the motor rules from 2012 that im aware of. Their crate has always weighed more than their spec engine has. The 2600 came with the Bert/Brinn deal which we feel is a big penalty along with 50lbs in front of the motorplate, solid pull bar, no spoiler and LR spring on top of the housing is alot jst for that tranny, especially when they allow a lightened manual tranny or a direct drive automatic with no penalty. But at least they did allow it and maybe after a season they will back it off a little. We have had a about for bad crashes this year , but the USRA insurance picked up the tab,ask those guys how they feel abt that 90 dollar license. I understand your point of view for sure and that is our goal to be unified under one set of rules if at all possible in the near future.
  6. Currently WPMS, Springfield, and Lucas aren't on the exact same package. For instance.. a crate car with a bert/brinn would have to weigh the following:

    WPMS: 2400 lbs
    Springfield: 2450 lbs (with 50 in front of the mid plate)
    Lucas: 2500 lbs (with 50 in front of the mid plate)

    Correct me if I'm wrong?
  7. WPMS

    WPMS Member

    WPMS will match springfield weights for 2013
  8. Toywagon

    Toywagon Member

    Thanks again WPMS for helping with my questions. That insurance deal from USRA is definitely a good thing, and good point on that.

    Crate engines with aftermarket tranny's thru USRA rules now must weigh 2600 lbs. I believe your correct that USRA hasnt changed their engine rule, but I dont think the engines ran here in SWMO would be USRA Legal last year either? USRA engines are 9.5 - 1 and dont allow the dart angle plug type heads I believe. Just about everwhere we race out in Kansas tags us with more weight for those heads.

    Over at Caney where I run, ( USRA )I am a solid pull bar, no spoiler, bert tranny, with dart heads, and they have me at 2600 lbs. Humboldt cars running per last years USRA rules run with me at 2400 lbs. No weight penalty for glides. USRA felt that the Crate deal was so much better than their 9.5-1 engine deal, that they tagged more weight onto the crates.

    I just think a USRA legal B Mod with its 9.5 to one engine is enough of a disadvantage just showing up that there wouldn't be a need to pick it apart over the small differences. If that crate B mod showed up at a USRA track that ran actual USRA rules, they would have to be adding a significant amount of lead.

    Im giving myself a headache! :D
  9. RattRace-20

    RattRace-20 Member

    I have talked with some guys who race the USRA rules and they have all told me that the only way you can win with the rules they run under you have to run a crate engine. That takes the local engine builder's out of the equation and puts Oboma motor co. The only rout. Now im a chevy guy but im also one who likes to put my money back in my community, with the rules we run West Plains, Springfield, Lucas Oil, Monett, and North Central Arkansas Speedway, we need just a little tweek on the rules but all in all they are very close, close enough that either engine can win. USRA sent out a questioner about rules and i suggested that they move to change their rules to what we have for a more even field of cars, not just a bunch of GM crate motors. Put the local machine shops back in the race. And so all who read this i have a crate car my son drives and a speck that i drive, just to show im not kicking one way , i have both!
  10. Thats great. I'm glad some tracks see the importance of keeping the rules together... even if you run the same night. Its important for class growth and its great for drivers who don't have to change things to run at different tracks.

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